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Thread: The World At Noonan - Batgirl, In And Out Of The Chair

  1. #11
    Dean of Cool University Arnoldoaad's Avatar
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    One thing I absolutely hated from the relaunch was the removal of Oracle
    I thought it was a step backwards on Barbara Gordon and the comic has not only proven as such it has gotten worse and worse as it move forward

    this is no longer in any style, way or form a compelling Barbara Gordon

    and any ties that she has to her disability have not only been negative but extremely offensive

    Barbara in essence is still a cripple, but her condition is no longer physical, its mental
    Oracle was an example of human inspiration cause since the first moment that Oracle appeared she was a triumph, its her trying to go on with her own life, to not let the chair define her or limit her, now imagine a book in which Oracle only faces a difficulty or challenge because she is in a wheelchair
    thats what this comic is about

    Her new Condition of PTSD is her new disability, is her new lost legs, and the costume is not her triumph, it is not her attempt to have a normal life, is her new wheelchair.
    this is a Batgirl that got BROKEN by The Killing Joke, and IS still Broken
    Barbara is now defined by her injury and not her recovery

    and she will never get over this condition just like Oracle never recover her leg mobility, and that is because her PTSD is the only reason she puts on the costume, it is not to help others, is to help herself.
    thats why we never see barbara gordon in the book, in 14 issues we only see batgirl 90% of the book, she has no social life, she has no friends, she has no job, and her family is barely an afterthought and thats only cause the retarded of her mother is back in the picture

    before you could had say that Barbara Gordon was injured in The Killing Joke
    Now, in this new version and thanks to Gail Simone
    Barbara Gordon died in the Killing Joke
    Batgirl is the only thing that there is left

    If she ever gets over this PTSD(and it is possible in real life), thats the moment she will quit being batgirl
    cause all what Barbara is doing as Batgirl is trying to prove to herself that she is not broken, that her injury didnt left a mark when she clearly did
    the moment she realizes she has a problem, that's the moment Batgirl will die

    Though I agree with many of the arguments I heard for keeping Barbara in the wheelchair there are some I do not, one of them being that she is no longer inspirational. I have not seen a truer depiction of a strong woman in comics than Barbara and that includes her as the current Batgirl. Anybody who can say that a woman who faces that kind of trauma and when cured, can still bring herself to not only live a relatively normal life by day but also nearly die fighting for justice every single night, isn?t inspirational doesn?t understand the meaning of the word. I understand how important and inspiring Oracle was for many people but Batgirl as we see her now is definitely still an inspiration. In the matter of Barbara?s restoration I think Simone said it best herself last year when speaking to Jill Pantozzi (who has Muscular Dystrophy and wrote a very moving article ?ORACLE Is Stronger Than BATGIRL Will Ever Be?) - ?Arms and legs get ripped off, and they grow back, somehow. Graves don't stay filled. But the one constant is that Barbara stays in that chair. Role model or not, that is problematic and uncomfortable, and the excuses to not cure her, in a world of purple rays and magic and super-science, are often unconvincing or wholly meta-textual. And the longer it goes on, the more it has stretched credibility.?
    She is not an inspirational figure as Batgirl or as the poster child of PTSD that she is now

    Batgirl is now a person to feel Sorry for

    thats why every single villain in the book is just like her
    a victim
    is trying to make you care by showing you how pathetic she is now

    I loved Barbara as Oracle, she was strong and intelligent - even more so than before ?The Killing Joke? because she never let anyone define her or put her in a box so why would she let the wheelchair? But I think it is interesting to see a Barbara Gordon that isn?t so sure of herself, that is struggling in new ways because isn?t that what we are always looking for in comic books? I have no doubt that we can expect a lot out of Batgirl while we have Gail Simone writing it and I hope to see her writing many more female characters.
    I dont think doubt and insecurity are any appealing qualities in a character
    specially when such insecurities come from just her having been shot at

    This is something I never understand
    I have seen ppl who HATE the Killing Joke, and they love this, but The Killing Joke has never ever been more relevant than it is now
    It is constantly reviewed in the book, in flashbacks in comments, it is a constant none stop, TKJ, TKJ, TKJ

    It is made worse by the fact that Gail retconned TKJ, so that Gordon was not in the room with barb, so he wasnt kidnapped and tortured, so the only relevant thing that happen was that she was shot, and then she retconned it more so that one of the goons saved the life of Barb for, absolutely no reason

    Batgirl is an offensive book, It reeks of ableism, the whole core of the book is build on an ablelist concept
    is poorly written, its characters are annoying or one dimensional, the villains are unimaginative and just forgettable and tries to preach about a message that comes completely hypocritical coming from Batgirl

    its a black stain in the career of Gail Simone and i cannot wait for the day that she leaves the book and formally apologizes for having done this
    Last edited by Arnoldoaad; 11-04-2012 at 12:29 PM.
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  2. #12
    Bleeding Cool
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnoldoaad View Post
    its a black stain in the career of Gail Simone and i cannot wait for the day that she leaves the book and formally apologizes for having done this
    Considering that, based on the reviews, most people who aren't you believe that the book has just gotten better as it goes along, I wouldn't recommend holding your breath for that.

  3. #13
    Dean of Cool University Arnoldoaad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comicsfan101 View Post
    Considering that, based on the reviews, most people who aren't you believe that the book has just gotten better as it goes along, I wouldn't recommend holding your breath for that.
    you probably dont check the same reviews that i do
    Check out the Comicfrontline
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  4. #14
    Bleeding Cool Cavemold's Avatar
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    Ive seen mixed reviews of batgirl.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnoldoaad View Post
    you probably dont check the same reviews that i do
    If you're seeing anything resembling a chance that Simone is going to apologize for this version of Batgirl, those aren't review sites. They're whiney self-indulgence sites with little connection to reality.

  6. #16
    Dean of Cool University Arnoldoaad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comicsfan101 View Post
    If you're seeing anything resembling a chance that Simone is going to apologize for this version of Batgirl, those aren't review sites. They're whiney self-indulgence sites with little connection to reality.
    no, i would like her to realize that her work is the ableist piece of shit that it is(cause she is obviously not doing it on purpose) and apologize for that

    but my point in the last comment wasnt about that, I just say that there are bad reviews about batgirl out there
    going from 1-6 out of 10 depending of the sites
    Check out the Comicfrontline
    The Self-destruction of New 52 FINAL PART is UP
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    Check out Batwatchhttp://batwatch.net/

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnoldoaad View Post
    no, i would like her to realize that her work is the ableist piece of shit that it is(cause she is obviously not doing it on purpose) and apologize for that

    but my point in the last comment wasnt about that, I just say that there are bad reviews about batgirl out there
    going from 1-6 out of 10 depending of the sites
    Of course there are bad reviews. There are also good reviews. My point stands: the likelihood of your ever seeing that apology (or of anyone like Simone ever agreeing that there is a reason for apology) is slim to none.

  8. #18
    Bleeding Cool The Xenos's Avatar
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    Yes. Clearly Batgirl is inspirational to women . Oracle is not. There is no way some poor helpless cripple in a wheelchair can be inspirational. So be glad they got rid of that pointless character of Oracle.. amirite, guys?

    Nope. Calling total bs on that line of supposed logic.

    And Gail did a damn fine job defending keeping Oracle in the chair before the reboot. She wanted no special magic and alien treatment.

    Meanwhile nU52 Babs, aside from coming off as alrrady selfish in other ways, tosses that all aside. There are still people.. the 99% of people making up the Earth.. who do not have acess to the magic amd tech that Batgirl and the superheros do. This super class.. let us say the 1% of the DCU America has this tech and refuses to share it with the poor, the disenfranchised, and the disabled. You are in a wheelchair? Too bad you aren't buddies with the JLA or Teen Titans. If only you were a superhero. They are the much like these mythical job creators. They deserve the magical benifits of being super that the rest of America does not.

    So.. yeah.. super healed Babsgirl annoys the hell out of me and makes the DCU and awful place and BAbs a terrible person.

    To be fair to Gail.. she is just sticking by a chara ter she loves and rolling with the punches. Her defense of the new status quo and her writing is trying to make the best of a bad situation. DC has shot down Oracle the way Joker shot down Barbara. And it seems Gail is trying her damndest to defend her after that tragedy.

    I have noidea where she gets the patience to deal with that shit as she trys desperately to maintain this character out of love. I may not like even how she tries or how much she may fail, but I admire Gail fr trying.

  9. #19
    Bleeding Cool The Xenos's Avatar
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    As much as I support those who are disabled.. as much as that is a silly label... I have to cringe that people are tossing around PC police words like ablist and ablism.

    Can we just say that DC Comics are a bunch of jackass insensative pricks to people in wheelchairs and are out of touch and just looking for some quick cash? See. Sounds so much nicer than a silly word like ableist.

  10. #20
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    This is a good and fair article.

    Very solid point:
    Though I agree with many of the arguments I heard for keeping Barbara in the wheelchair there are some I do not, one of them being that she is no longer inspirational. I have not seen a truer depiction of a strong woman in comics than Barbara and that includes her as the current Batgirl. Anybody who can say that a woman who faces that kind of trauma and when cured, can still bring herself to not only live a relatively normal life by day but also nearly die fighting for justice every single night, isn?t inspirational doesn?t understand the meaning of the word. I understand how important and inspiring Oracle was for many people but Batgirl as we see her now is definitely still an inspiration. In the matter of Barbara?s restoration I think Simone said it best herself last year when speaking to Jill Pantozzi (who has Muscular Dystrophy and wrote a very moving article ?ORACLE Is Stronger Than BATGIRL Will Ever Be?) - ?Arms and legs get ripped off, and they grow back, somehow. Graves don't stay filled. But the one constant is that Barbara stays in that chair. Role model or not, that is problematic and uncomfortable, and the excuses to not cure her, in a world of purple rays and magic and super-science, are often unconvincing or wholly meta-textual. And the longer it goes on, the more it has stretched credibility.?

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