Page 1 of 50 12311 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 494
Like Tree399Likes

Thread: Rape, Redemption And The Amazing Spider-Man (Spoilers)

  1. #1
    Administrator
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    21,107

    Default Rape, Redemption And The Amazing Spider-Man (Spoilers)

    There are spoilers for those who have not yet read Amazing Spider-Man #700 or Avenging Spider-Man #15.1, published today. Go no further if not...

    As has been stated a number of times "If you have to ask if it's rape, then..." But this is superhero comics, which brings in whole new levels of circumstances. Or does it?

    In the new Amazing Spider-Man #700, as it begins we meet Peter Parker, the Amazing Spider-Man, with Doctor Octopus living in his head. And he seems to be getting it on with Mary Jane Watson, his in-another-reality ex-wife, certainly ex-girlfriend, and they seem to be getting it on.

    They are interrupted by events, however, before Doc Ock can get his ninth tentacle out. But this is the new status quo for Spider-Man. The question asked is, if Mary Jane Watson willingly sleeps with Peter Parker - because it's not really Peter Parker - is this rape?

    She is certainly not consenting to have sex with Doctor Octopus. But the sex that she would be having, she seems totally to be consenting to. Indeed, Dan Slott specifically writes this scene so that Doctor Octopus is the one who is voicing his consent, Mary Jane Watson is the instigator here.

    This issue was raised a while ago in this run, with Chamelon supposedly sleeping with Peter Parker's roommate Michelle under similar circumstances. Writer of that issue Fred Van Lente wrote at the time;
    My understanding of the definition of rape is that it requires force or the threat of force, so no. Using deception to trick someone into granting consent isn?t quite the same thing.
    He then clarified that Michelle and Chameleon only made out, which felt a little like equivocation. But if Mary Jane Watson and the new Peter Parker get down to it in Superior Spider-Man #1, as they were about to in Amazing Spider-Man #700, is it fraud or rape?

    Certainly people have lied to get sex many times. Pretended to be someone other than who they really are. Is it rape if you say you are a multi-millionaire, a member of a popular rock band or related to someone who is? Pretended to be interested in the other person, pretended to be from another country, pretended to not be in another relationship at the time? Much of our life is pretence, some of it ends in sex.

    But what are the real life examples of what Doctor Octopus was trying to do?

    Well, in British law, it's unequivocal. The Sexual Offences Act states that is rape if you are impersonating someone else known to the complainant.

    In the USA, it's not so clear and varies state to state. In 2009 one police officer in Connecticut masqueraded as his twin brother to have sex with his brother's girlfriend. The charge was later dropped and he pled guilty to unlawful restraint and criminal impersonation, sentenced to suspended five years. in jail

    In a similar case involving siblings, the US courts decided again this year that this did not constitute rape. in Massachusetts at least.
    The Supreme Judicial Court unanimously ruled that a judge should have dismissed the rape charge against Alvin Suliveres, of Westfield, because Massachusetts law has for two centuries defined rape as sexual intercourse by force and against one's will and that it is not rape when consent is obtained through fraud.

    If the Legislature wants to make fraud an element of rape, it should follow the lead of several other states and change the law, the court said. Lawmakers have taken no steps to do so, the court added, since the SJC issued a seminal ruling in 1959 about the use of trickery to obtain sex.
    Clearly not everyone agrees with this, with Wendy Murphy, former Middlesex County prosecutor and New England School of Law teacher is quoted as saying;
    "The message that the court sends today is, in essence, that a man's ability to obtain sex through fraud with regard to who he is is more important than a woman's fundamental right to control her own body... It is impossible -- as a matter of fact and law -- to consent to sex with the wrong person."
    But there is something else regarding Amazing Spider-Man #700 and Avenging Spider-Man #15.1 that many may have missed. Doctor Octopus gets his lesson, his Uncle Ben moment, his Road To Damascus revelation and decides to change. To be a different man, a better man, the hero he could have been but never was.

    Superior Spider-Man #1 looks to be, in many ways, a tale of redemption. Someone trying to change and be a better man. Knowing what he knows now, experiencing what he has now experienced, will he choose to decline what is being offered to him?



    Will he have a conscience? Because here's the thing, in arguing whether this is rape or not, it may be forgotten, it is unequivocally wrong. And now Doc Ock is meant to know the difference, and that means something to him.

    Marvel Comics has often blurred the line between the hero and the villain, giving relatively justifiable motivation to the bad guy, and often seeing them cross over to the light, seeking and finding redemption. Magneto, Rogue, Sandman, Hawkeye... this is just another example, albeit it a more prominent one.

    As to the original question "if you ask to ask..." it's a lesson that some people need to learn. It's just possible that Superior Spider-Man may teach it.

    NB: And to those swearing off Spider-Man forever, remember this. They are making the second Amazing Spider-Man film. And often the comics try and line up with the film portrayal of the comic book hero. So the odds are you won't have to wait too long.



    Comics courtesy of Orbital Comics, London.


  2. #2
    Zen Master of Cool
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    904

    Default

    The day after Xmas is pretty much the definition of a slow news day.
    AMDin, MicroZone and Cavemold like this.

  3. #3
    Dean of Cool University Stevaux The LEsser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ, reluctantly...
    Posts
    2,290

    Default

    If MJ is attracted enough to this blended Peter-Otto thingie and sleeps with him, she's basing it off of his current behavior and that's pretty danged consensual...

  4. #4
    King of Cool Blackfist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    London
    Posts
    17,759

    Default

    Though it's most certainly wrong sleeping with someone under more than false pretences (i mean who acts like themselves around a woman they like? ) it is indeed not rape, although it can be used as a basis for prosecution like mental duress or abuse.

    I think some police officers go to court for lying to a woman they have a relationship with under a false identity but it's rare to get a prosecution.
    Rootfireember likes this.
    Marvel: S-man 2099, Rocket Raccoon
    DC: Wonder Woman, Injustice, Detective Comics, Sandman Overture
    Indie: Sonic the Hedgehog, MegaMan, Street Fighter, SkullKickers, Fatale, Elephantmen, Afterlife of Archie, The Wicked+The Divine

  5. #5
    Way Cool
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    40

    Default

    If anybody's being raped it's Peter Parker's body.

  6. #6
    VP in Charge of Cool ShadowMax's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Athens
    Posts
    1,530

    Default

    Sex is a physical act. She is still having it with Peter Parker's body. There's no rape.
    ShadowMax prefers Valiant comics. The choice of the brave.

  7. #7
    Wrote the Book on Cool
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    France
    Posts
    710

    Default

    I have trouble seeing how it wouldn't be rape, whatever the case. Willing to be proven wrong, but I find highly unlikely.
    Le Pov where I do my thing in French or English.
    My Tumblr: a sign that it's not just the cool kids anymore who have one.
    @Thomallard on Twitter

  8. #8
    Consultant of Cool
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    226

    Default

    people lie to get in the sack all the time... and can you stretch the definition being implied here to people you thought you knew but changed somewhere in the relationship to the point they are like a different person? I think rape is a pretty strong word to put in a headline here...

    Rape is about power, not sex. It really comes down to the agency of the people involved, tho I guess there are ways to interpret that

  9. #9
    VP in Charge of Cool ShadowMax's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Athens
    Posts
    1,530

    Default

    If you have sex with a person and you later find out they had led a life you weren't aware of and would never have approved of, can you accuse them of rape? In any case, MJ is having sex with the person that is in front of her and she chose, whether he turns out to be not exactly the man she thought he was has nothing to do with rape. It may be fraud, but it's not rape and it happens all the time in real life as well.

    Otherwise only mind-readers would be certain of not being 'raped' when they are having sex.
    Last edited by ShadowMax; 12-26-2012 at 07:37 AM.
    ShadowMax prefers Valiant comics. The choice of the brave.

  10. #10
    Dean of Cool University Candletric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    1,763

    Default

    What's the point of "cancelling" Amazing Spider-man when its only a matter of time that either a.) Superior will become Amazing or b.) Amazing will start fresh with issue number 1 then go back to being issue 7?? ?

Page 1 of 50 12311 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •