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Thread: The Goosing Of Marvel NOW With Variants And Discount

  1. #171
    King of Cool Peter J Poole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QCCBob View Post
    The greatest thing about certain prolific posters on here is they say EXACTLY what you mock them for and don't realize that's what they're saying. If you know sales are dropping and you keep doing the same thing over and over, any moron should be able to figure out the result. So, all these intelligent types keep saying do the same thing so we get the books we want, but do something to increase sales and come up with nothing practical. Suggest changing the content and the markets you're aiming at as a simple, obvious solution and they lose their minds. Then, you point out that if all they want is for everything to stay the same, they obviously don't want sales to increase and they lose their minds. Or they cry 'DIGITAL IS OUR SALVATION' just exactly the same way they cried 'TRADES ARE OUR SALVATION'. As long as the product remains largely the same and the people who want it keep dwindling, format matters not at all.
    OK Bob.. as ever, a mix of valid points and some that I think are.. flawed. Let's go with flawed.

    Nu52 and NOW may not work as well as publishers hope, and may not be what you'd do, but it's nonsense to say publishers do nothing.

    Changing content - your good old days, Blade's all ages, whatever - is a gamble when no one is producing books that sell significantly better in those formats.

    More to the point, your reluctance to piss off your current customer base by offering free/cheap comics to new readers is the exact same argument. A reluctance to risk what you have for what you want...

    I'd love to see more varied content. I don't think one sweeping change to one new model is an answer. (Though I do think Now writers like Aaron and Bunn may be moving closer to what you and Blade advocate... With a codicil that I'll probably drop their books if they do)

    Digital - I prefer paper, and love the LCS experience deeply. After 35 years, why wouldn't I?

    But I won't willfully close my eyes to a better business model that encourages/enables everything you and I agree the industry needs. Even though it does so at the cost of massive change to the way the LCS fits into the system.

    I think our core disagreement here is that you're what - in my industry - is called a 'safe hands' manager. You know your job and you can keep the ship on course, but you're inherently conservative. Thing is, when the ship is sinking, you need a 'turn around' manager. One who will think outside the box, see opportunities and make bold/risky decisions and see them through. Someone who is not afraid to speculate in order to accumulate.

    Cheers
    toodoor, D Bell and Comicsfan101 like this.

  2. #172
    Very Cool The Cheat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by not him - HIM View Post
    That's the great thing - if I forget my card, then that's okay. The whole thing's electronic, so they they can key me in by surname and BAM - there I am. And the points get accrued and I can buy a big fat Moebius GN every three months, or whatever.
    While I like Travelling Man, the loyalty card thing is a pain in the arse. I've got one, but usually don't bother as I never have it with me. My loss I guess.

  3. #173
    Dean of Cool University
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blade X View Post
    Several years ago, a shop in my area used to advertise on CARTOON NETWORK for several months. That shop eventually ended up going out of business a couple of years later. This is more proof that shops spending money on ads does not drum up enough business to help the industry.
    they may not have been advertising with cartoon network per se.
    Cable operators sell advertising on the local level. The store in question may or may not have paid more to advertise on kid centric stations.

  4. #174
    Captain Cool awesomesauce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blade X View Post
    Several years ago, a shop in my area used to advertise on CARTOON NETWORK for several months. That shop eventually ended up going out of business a couple of years later. This is more proof that shops spending money on ads does not drum up enough business to help the industry.
    While that advertising could have been a drain on their finances, it doesn't automatically correlate to the shop closing down. There are also several other factors that could have taken place like the owner's personal life, cost of maintaining the storefront, or simply lack of demand in the area.

  5. #175
    Bleeding Cool toodoor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by awesomesauce View Post
    While that advertising could have been a drain on their finances, it doesn't automatically correlate to the shop closing down. There are also several other factors that could have taken place like the owner's personal life, cost of maintaining the storefront, or simply lack of demand in the area.
    Yeah, if the advertising was directly responsible then that's purely a result of really poor decision making.

  6. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blade X View Post
    Several years ago, a shop in my area used to advertise on CARTOON NETWORK for several months. That shop eventually ended up going out of business a couple of years later. This is more proof that shops spending money on ads does not drum up enough business to help the industry.
    This is something I hear a lot from people that don't understand* the purpose of advertising.

    Think of advertising as something similar to the shelves on which you place the comics. The shelves themselves won't help increase sales. But without them, people won't see the comics they may want to buy. It's a necessary cost of doing business.

    Advertising's job isn't to directly increase sales; it's to make people aware that you exist and, when they think of comics, your store is the first that comes to mind and thus they may want to go there first. It's called top of mind awareness.
    It's up to the staff to close the sale once the advertising has done its job and gotten people in the door.



    * It's not anyone's fault they don't understand the true purpose of advertising. Too many ad reps are only concerned about closing the sale and will say anything to get the contract.

  7. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by awesomesauce View Post
    While that advertising could have been a drain on their finances, it doesn't automatically correlate to the shop closing down. There are also several other factors that could have taken place like the owner's personal life, cost of maintaining the storefront, or simply lack of demand in the area.
    I'd suggest, based on Blade saying "a couple of years later," that the advertising may actually have extended the life of the shop.
    Peter J Poole likes this.

  8. #178
    King of Cool Peter J Poole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by D Bell View Post
    This is something I hear a lot from people that don't understand* the purpose of advertising.
    Mmmm...more methodology than purpose surely?

    Stealing data shamelessly from last week's QI, the tobacco industry initially loved the introduction of No Smoking signs in theatres and cinemas. Because every time someone saw them, they thought about smoking.

    You don't advertise to 10 million people who paid to see the Avengers movie hoping or expecting to get them all. You do it hoping to get the 1% of them who double the size of sales on your top book.

    It's hunting with a shotgun or fishing with dynamite. Though it helps to be in the right forest or lake.

    Cheers
    Last edited by Peter J Poole; 11-06-2012 at 10:21 AM.

  9. #179
    Bleeding Cool QCCBob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter J Poole View Post
    I think our core disagreement here is that you're what - in my industry - is called a 'safe hands' manager. You know your job and you can keep the ship on course, but you're inherently conservative. Thing is, when the ship is sinking, you need a 'turn around' manager. One who will think outside the box, see opportunities and make bold/risky decisions and see them through. Someone who is not afraid to speculate in order to accumulate.
    SIGH, and you still don't get the fact that there is reasonable risk and there is uninformed people making wonderful sounding proposals based on their own opinions of how things should work with next to no knowledge of the system that exists. How you could possibly have read my posts lo these many years and think I'm the guy who is cautious and quietly accepts the way things are is frankly insane. Hopefully, your 'turn around manager' actually has a working knowledge of the biz before he mangles everything beyond salvation.

    Our core disagreement tends to be you playing it safe, not wanting to change anything except the delivery system, keep doing what we're doing, and eventually find a way to make the same thing work against all logic and reason. I want to go 'outside the box' and get new readers (not lapsed readers and speculators) from different demographics than the one we can't keep. I want the guys who make billions to pull their fair share and reach out to bring in those new demographics rather than expect those who make thousands to do it for them because an individual store cannot support one product or product line effectively on the kind of budget required. Again, we can't spend thousands to make hundreds while they can easily spend hundred thousands to make millions, i.e. DC new 52.
    Blade X likes this.

  10. #180
    Bleeding Cool QCCBob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by D Bell View Post
    Advertising's job isn't to directly increase sales; it's to make people aware that you exist and, when they think of comics, your store is the first that comes to mind and thus they may want to go there first. It's called top of mind awareness.
    It's up to the staff to close the sale once the advertising has done its job and gotten people in the door.
    See, here's the root of the industry problem. We're not Wal-Mart or McDonalds. An LCS has very little control over the products we carry in many ways especially when it comes to the Big Two. I control numbers as in less or more, but I have to carry the stuff. In the good old days, they put out a book that sells horribly (especially compared to past history), we all cut our orders, the sales keep dropping, and they fix the book or cancel it. Nowadays, they don't care. How many 'relaunches' have books had in the last ten years where they just change the name or an artist? How many times do we see the same failed concept trotted out with a new wrapper? An LCS doesn't make the books and doesn't have the ability to just get a better cheaper supplier when ABC Company's widgets are poorly made or too expensive. Our sales are only going to be as good as the majority of the products we carry will allow. Like I said before, I can go door to door giving people crap and limburger sandwiches for free, but I ain't gonna sell any.

    AND as I said before, all you have to do is look at the epic success and equally epic failure that is Free Comic Book Day. It gets hundreds of thousands of people worldwide in the doors of shops to get 'free' comics, yet the overall sales keep dropping. Not anecdotal evidence, not MY store, we're talking an industry wide event.

    Oh, by the by, good shelves are the best investment you'll EVER make. I have plexigrass shelves that allow me to full face out stacks of up to 25-30 copies with no impediment to vision. No waterfall, no overlap, just hundreds of full comic book covers staring you in the face. No offense, but the fact that you don't get the investment value of shelves points out the difference between knowing retail and theorizing retail.
    Blade X and The Cheat like this.

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