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Thread: Steve Bissette Calls For Action Against Marvel Over Jack Kirby Case

  1. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toni Smith View Post
    And not a single Jack Kirby creation without Stan Lee was successful either, people can talk all they want about how the New Gods is fantastic, but it flopped. And when Kirby took the same concept back Marvel-who treated him so poorly he came back to work for them several times- as the Eternals, it also flopped. The best Kirby creation post Lee-Kirby is Machine Man, and that's thanks to Nextwave.
    Kirby had plenty of successful creations without Stan, Captain America for instance, the Boy Commandos and the romance comics he did with Joe Simon were extremely successful. And whether or not the New Gods or The Eternals were successful or not, they were excellent comics. After Jack left the "house of ideas", Stan pretty much gave up writing.

  2. #112

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    Quote Originally Posted by toodoor View Post
    I've never heard Stan say anything but good things about Kirby (and all the artists he worked with) and their contribution, really don't see the need to throw shit at him.
    Why wouldn't he have good things to say about the guy who did so much to make him so rich and famous.

  3. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Locusmortis View Post
    Kirby had plenty of successful creations without Stan, Captain America for instance, the Boy Commandos and the romance comics he did with Joe Simon were extremely successful. And whether or not the New Gods or The Eternals were successful or not, they were excellent comics. After Jack left the "house of ideas", Stan pretty much gave up writing.
    Captain America was predominantly a Joe Simon creation.

  4. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Locusmortis View Post
    Kirby had plenty of successful creations without Stan, Captain America for instance, the Boy Commandos and the romance comics he did with Joe Simon were extremely successful. And whether or not the New Gods or The Eternals were successful or not, they were excellent comics. After Jack left the "house of ideas", Stan pretty much gave up writing.
    Stan Lee's genius was largely editorial and collaborative in nature; he had the ability to take the ideas generated by Kirby and refine them into commercial successes. And, of course, he was the best dialogue writer in 1960s superhero comics.

  5. #115
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    Marvel has a history of handing out shitty treatment to creators - even by the standards of the industry. I'm not surprised by the ruling - but if DC can pay the Kirby Estate royalties on the New Gods, why can't Marvel give them anything?

    Hell, why does Len Wein get more for Lucius Fox than he does for Wolverine?

  6. #116
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    ...Hell, add insult to injury. Just e-mail each Marvel book's lettercol's know each an every month that a) you loved the story, b) should still have been dedicated to Jack, and c) was the best comic they pirated for that week. C) adds salt to the wounds by letting Marvel know that all they have to do to see your hard-earned dollars spent on their product again is to do the right thing and give Jack the proper financial and creative credits he's earned. And just as an added penalty to Marvel, give Roz some sort of credit as well, as she kept Jack going through those last couple of decades and inarguably deserves to be honored for her efforts!
    -------

  7. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemurion View Post
    Marvel has a history of handing out shitty treatment to creators - even by the standards of the industry. I'm not surprised by the ruling - but if DC can pay the Kirby Estate royalties on the New Gods, why can't Marvel give them anything?

    Hell, why does Len Wein get more for Lucius Fox than he does for Wolverine?
    Had the Kirby estate sued for royalties instead of copyrights, perhaps they could have seen something they truly deserve, but they shot themselves in the foot going for the copyrights. Again, EVERY creator from the golden and silver ages deserve some major kickbacks, but this case set a precedent that will prevent publishers from doing such a thing because it'll appear to be an admission of guilt or wrongdoing on their part.

  8. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemurion View Post
    Marvel has a history of handing out shitty treatment to creators - even by the standards of the industry. I'm not surprised by the ruling - but if DC can pay the Kirby Estate royalties on the New Gods, why can't Marvel give them anything?

    Hell, why does Len Wein get more for Lucius Fox than he does for Wolverine?
    But who should get the credit for Wolverine? Len Wein, the guy who came up with the idea for a Canadian hero with claws coming out of his gloves? John Romita,sr, the man who designed his costume? Herb Trimpe, the first artist to draw Wolverine in a comic book? Dave Cockrum, the man who created Wolverine's face? Gil Kane, who re-designed Wolverine's mask into its classic shape? John Byrne and Chris Claremont, the men who turned Wolverine into a cult figure and who gave Wolverine his adamantium skeleton and rapid healing power? Heck, how about Roy Thomas, the guy who created adamantium. Shouldn't Roy get a check every time someone uses adamantium?

  9. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by syon View Post
    But who should get the credit for Wolverine? Len Wein, the guy who came up with the idea for a Canadian hero with claws coming out of his gloves? John Romita,sr, the man who designed his costume? Herb Trimpe, the first artist to draw Wolverine in a comic book? Dave Cockrum, the man who created Wolverine's face? Gil Kane, who re-designed Wolverine's mask into its classic shape? John Byrne and Chris Claremont, the men who turned Wolverine into a cult figure and who gave Wolverine his adamantium skeleton and rapid healing power? Heck, how about Roy Thomas, the guy who created adamantium. Shouldn't Roy get a check every time someone uses adamantium?
    Again, everything you say is so sound it's boner inducing. People want to make the Kirby case into a small family trying to do their dad justice against a mean old monolith under the satanic corporate umbrella of the dreaded mouse. To me, it was two objectivist objectives against one another. Had the Kirbys won their copyrights, I guarantee any following contributors like Roy Thomas, Walt Simonson and so forth would not receive any sort of better deals from The Kirby comics group than they would from Marvel.

    I would like to see some sort of comics union that also finds a way for retroactive royalties for guys who brought so much to the table.

  10. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by JensAltmann View Post
    - Usagi Yojimbo
    - Anything by Sergio AragonÚs
    - Atomic Robo
    - Girl Genius
    - Witch Doctor
    - Invincible
    - Savage Dragon
    - The Mis-Adventures of Adam West
    - Basically, anything by Image
    Image? But Image founder Rob Liefeld spent all his 90's cash on drugs and fancy cars. I am supposed to be Moral Lad here. Image is out. Anything else?

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