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Thread: See A Key Scene From Rise Of The Planet Of The Apes... Without The CG

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    Default See A Key Scene From Rise Of The Planet Of The Apes... Without The CG

    I feel the same way about Andy Serkis receiving a Best Actor Oscar nomination for Rise of the Planet of the Apes as I do whenever I see Mike Leigh has received a screenplay nod: it doesn't seem entirely fair. Let me elaborate.

    With Leigh's screenplay credits, he's working with dialogue and plot beats harvested from his actors. It seems to me like they should all share the recognition, as they've all played a significant part.

    Similarly, with Andy Serkis, he was not alone in bringing the performance of Caesar to the screen. It could be argued that he did most of the work, but also that there was still a significant amount remaining for the FX teams to do.

    Performance capture just isn't a plug-in-a-player technology, as the hype would have you believe. And it goes beyond the CG artists being charged with menial, wrinkle-removal ironing jobs into full artistry.

    We'll discard the "stunt" moments where Caesar is an entirely keyframe animated creation, as these happen for live action performers too - imagine Tom Cruise replaced with CG for a moment as he's hit by a car, or Batman going swooping down into a digital landscape.

    What we need to concentrate on instead are the quieter moments, the close-ups, the calm beats. In a live action film, there's no need for a CG team to come in and alter things here.

    But with performance capture, there almost always is. And it's not automated, it's a process that requires the judgment of artists sitting at computer terminals making decisions about the performance. Yes, they might well have footage of the player to guide them, but they're still having to make choices themselves.

    Here's how Joe Letteri, who worked on Apes, put it to me when I was asking about this very idea:
    We look at what is going on with the live action performance, and we try to teach the computer to understand what the actor?s intent was and how to translate that to the character. If the actor would give you exactly the same expressions [as we modelled ahead of time], the computer can give you exactly the same expression back on the character. But the fact is that the human face is infinitely flexible, so that in fact never happens.

    But it can get close, and we get the computer to give us the best answer that it knows. But then animators go in and work out those expressions. Even the ones that computer starts out with, because it needs something to start out with, were done by animators. This is all done by an animation and a modelling team that makes all of these things and say ?This is Tintin smiling, this is Tintin sad.? It?s all really artistically driven and we use the computer as a way to learn these so that once we figure them all out, we don?t have to go back and create it all again by hand.

    And if it had been possible for me to stay on that topic for longer, I would, and we'd have built up an even better explanation of why the animators, and their personal, creative decisions are crucial.

    So, really, I'm not saying that I wouldn't want to see Andy Serkis nominated, I just think the credit for Caesar's performance needs to go to more than one individual, and that it would be unjust to leave out the animators who each made a personal, meaningful contribution and gave Caesar the expressions and reactions that were needed, that worked, and which communicated Serkis' intent. They're far, far more than digital make-up artists.

    It is a great performance, and Serkis' contribution was undoubtedly crucial, so let's celebrate it with this clip, courtesy of HitFix. This exists as part of the Serkis Oscar campaign, as does their acommpanying article.



    Oscar for Andy? Sure. He did an amazing job. And another one for the animators too, because so did they.

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    Bleeding Cool Joe Kalicki's Avatar
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    I don't think he really deserves one anyway, and if he got one it would purely be a stunt nomination.

    Oh look, Ceasar's sad again. Boo hoo.

    (I enjoyed the movie a lot though)

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    Bullshit. Andy's a genius and deserves any award he gets.

    I suppose you think comics shouldn't ever win awards for story because there's artwork in them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FitzTheRuke View Post
    Bullshit. Andy's a genius and deserves any award he gets.

    I suppose you think comics shouldn't ever win awards for story because there's artwork in them.
    This would be closer to giving a comic an award for best artwork and only honouring the penciller, ignoring the contributions of the inker and colourist

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    Consultant of Cool Benjamin1345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FitzTheRuke View Post
    Bullshit. Andy's a genius and deserves any award he gets.

    I suppose you think comics shouldn't ever win awards for story because there's artwork in them.
    Except that images can tell a story. Andy Serkis, talented though he is, was not entirely responsible for the performance of Caesar the super-ape.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Benjamin1345 View Post
    Except that images can tell a story. Andy Serkis, talented though he is, was not entirely responsible for the performance of Caesar the super-ape.
    Fine

    So nominate everyone attached to Ceasar for best actor.
    Stop telling me how things should be, I'm just some cunt on the internet.
    Get up, move to a table without the internet, and do something about changing it.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Mad_Man_Moon View Post
    Fine

    So nominate everyone attached to Ceasar for best actor.
    ...Or force the Academy to concede and finally add a category that specifically covers situations where not only mo-cap performances are concerned, but superior meshing of live actor in full-body costume with other famous actor providing the voice - i.e., David Prowse and James Earl Jones together made Darth Vader work, and both should have been equally acknowledged with such an Oscar, an Oscar and category that still doesn't exist.
    drachenfells likes this.
    Disclaimer: the opinions expressed in this post may contain adult, intelligent humor, ribald satire, biting sarcasm, aggressive cynicism, and even a brutally honest criticism or twelve. If you’ve truly got a serious problem with any of my opinions and/or the style in which they’re presented, feel free to drop me a PM and we’ll actually give it a honest go at working out our differences. Remember, working things out professionally and courteously will make things run smoother around here, eh?

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    Bleeding Cool Joe Kalicki's Avatar
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    Maybe do a mo-cap/voice actor category to incorporate all non-appearance performances.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FitzTheRuke View Post
    Bullshit. Andy's a genius and deserves any award he gets.

    I suppose you think comics shouldn't ever win awards for story because there's artwork in them.
    I think you completely misunderstood every single thing I wrote.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brendon Connelly View Post
    I think you completely misunderstood every single thing I wrote.
    ..Maybe I did too, then. Howabout doing a bullet point list of just -what- you were trying to get across? Are you calling for separate Oscars for Andy and the compu-hair team, or one Oscar to unite them all?
    Disclaimer: the opinions expressed in this post may contain adult, intelligent humor, ribald satire, biting sarcasm, aggressive cynicism, and even a brutally honest criticism or twelve. If you’ve truly got a serious problem with any of my opinions and/or the style in which they’re presented, feel free to drop me a PM and we’ll actually give it a honest go at working out our differences. Remember, working things out professionally and courteously will make things run smoother around here, eh?

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