Etta Candy To Return As An "Immense Girl" In Grant Morrison's Wonder Woman

[Stefan Offenberg]

The millions of young people, particularly young girls, who read comics, you mean?

I think I referred to the media as a whole, rather than just comic books, when I said "millions". But if your position is that comic books shouldn't be more welcoming to the opposite gender, you're certainly entitled to feel that way.

[Peter J Poole]

I haven't read the issue in question, but it's hard (thought not certainly impossible) to believe the kid's mobile phone voyeurism was shown in a positive light. Perhaps there could have been a scene where he got a cuff round the ear from the Red Hood, but then what if the lad's parents had sued?

Were comics ever inspirational though? I remember jumping down the stairs with a towel round my neck because of Superman, but that's about it.

Not so much positive as neutral/indifferent; 'of course he did this, why wouldn't he, what's the problem'?

Inspirational? "With great power..", "Truth, justice and...", "Criminals are a cowardly..."

Most of the classics were grounded in something fundamentally heroic.

Though this may be my inner 7 year old channelling through from 1964...

Cheers

[Comicsfan101]

Not so much positive as neutral/indifferent; 'of course he did this, why wouldn't he, what's the problem'?

Inspirational? "With great power..", "Truth, justice and...", "Criminals are a cowardly..."

Most of the classics were grounded in something fundamentally heroic.

Though this may be my inner 7 year old channelling through from 1964...

Cheers

Peter, I do understand what you're saying here, and my own inner 7 year old agrees (I do still strongly prefer inspirational and heroic in my hero stories), but you have to admit that it really hasn't been the norm for a while now. Even though you do still find it in some books, it seems unlikely that you would find it, today, in a book that even says "Outlaws" in the title.

[Peter J Poole]

I think I referred to the media as a whole, rather than just comic books, when I said "millions". But if your position is that comic books shouldn't be more welcoming to the opposite gender, you're certainly entitled to feel that way.

There's an element of that's the way women get to look in this genre, just as with the spy genre and noir detective stuff I mentioned earlier... but I do think the pendulum swings a bit too far at times.

Someone like Terry Moore can draw a fuller figure woman I sure as Hell wouldn't kick out of the bed.

Then again, 'immense girl' doesn't sound like the most balanced term I ever heard either...

Cheers

[Peter J Poole]

Peter, I do understand what you're saying here, and my own inner 7 year old agrees (I do still strongly prefer inspirational and heroic in my hero stories), but you have to admit that it really hasn't been the norm for a while now. Even though you do still find it in some books, it seems unlikely that you would find it, today, in a book that even says "Outlaws" in the title.

Oh, fully accepted, and it's not like the current customer base are 7 year olds anymore. (Well, maybe emotionally in some cases...)

Then again, it not being the norm these days is pretty much what I'm getting wistful over, in terms of what entertainment in many, many media does tell us all is acceptable behaviour...

Cheers

[Ian Coke]

I think I referred to the media as a whole, rather than just comic books, when I said "millions". But if your position is that comic books shouldn't be more welcoming to the opposite gender, you're certainly entitled to feel that way.

My position is that comics shouldn't be welcoming to anybody.

As with movies, TV and pop culture in general, each new project should be seen for what it is; a total shot in the dark. I don't know about you (maybe you like it?) but I usually feel a bit insulted when it seems like I'm being targeted as part of a marketing demographic.

Do teenage girls feel the same? I don't know. Perhaps they do. Your call, really.

[Stefan Offenberg]

My position is that comics shouldn't be welcoming to anybody.

As with movies, TV and pop culture in general, each new project should be seen for what it is; a total shot in the dark. I don't know about you (maybe you like it?) but I usually feel a bit insulted when it seems like I'm being targeted as part of a marketing demographic.

Do teenage girls feel the same? I don't know. Perhaps they do. Your call, really.

It's not about targeting demographics, it's about not shutting out demographics. It's the reason why it's generally seen as a positive move when companies include people of other races and ethnicities, or people with different lifestyles. A readership, not unreasonably, wants to read about a world that reflects theirs, and sees them as a part of it. And there are many people who just don't get that.

See this for an example:

“Black People Don’t See Themselves In The Future” | Bleeding Cool Comic Book, Movies and TV News and Rumors

[n8twing]

Let's look at his quote again with a little bolding action and see if we can spot what you've missed:

"That's BS. Wonder Woman has her status, but look at the shit DC gets for showing Catwoman and Starfire having sex. Starfire has had sex with one person in the last 14 months and "fans" still call her a slut. So the problem isn't with DC's depiction, it's with the people reading the books."

My mistake... I thought the implication was that fans thought Starfire was a slut for years.

What also threw me was, "Starfire has had sex with one person [b]in the last 14 months" because that's inaccurate. In issue #1 of RED HOOD AND THE OUTLAWS, it's established Starfire has had sex with Jason AND Roy.

[Joe Kalicki]

My mistake... I thought the implication was that fans thought Starfire was a slut for years.

What also threw me was, "Starfire has had sex with one person [b]in the last 14 months" because that's inaccurate. In issue #1 of RED HOOD AND THE OUTLAWS, it's established Starfire has had sex with Jason AND Roy.

She didn't have sex with Jason in Red Hood 1 or any issue since.

[jyork]

She didn't have sex with Jason in Red Hood 1 or any issue since.

But it's made clear in that issue that Starfire fucked Jason then fucks Roy within a short time period. Not that I care at all, but your literal phrasing basically ignores that. Like I said, I could careless I saw Starfire way closer to nude and being sexual in some issue of Pre-52 Nightwing or Teen Titans or something. Babs shows up to Dick's apartment, he answers or Starfire does and Starfire is basically completely nude besides an aptly placed bed sheet. Clearly, they just had coitus. So honestly, I don't see much of a change although I've only read the first three Red Hood issues.

And whoever said people don't want to read about "fatties," I think Robert Kirkman would disagree as he changed Atom Eve in Invincible from the stereotypical comic book lady and made her a "fattie." I don't think anyone has really had a whole lot of complaints about it.

I just take issue with in the way female comic book fantasy characters are portrayed physically, but oh well. It's just reaffirming what movies, TV, and the media portray as "normal" or "good looking", no matter if it's just comic books, it's more of the fucking same old bullshit. I don't really care, but they are just following a lead and it's the wrong one. I mean, sure it' s fantasy land but the way females are generally portrayed (not all the time) is something most comic fans come to terms with, because they have to. That flaw has always been there and probably always will, so I've gotten over it. Doesn't mean I agree with it though or try to justify it.