DC comics positivity thread

[Joe Kalicki]

A big reason (though not the biggest) I haven't been posting over the last couple weeks is because I'm tired of all the rampant negativity in regards to DC. For some people every single thing they do is not only wrong, but apparently offensive. Everything is all doom and gloom and, if you believe them, the company will be out of business in 6 months. So, instead of dealing with it anymore, I just decided to start this thread where DC fans can talk about all they like about the company and its books.

One thing I've been really impressed by all along, but especially now that I'm in the middle of the 0 issues, is the continuity and really tight timeline of the entire universe. Having read Marvel a lot during Harras's time in charge there I knew this would be a highlight, since he and his team do a good job keeps the books intertwined, though back then it was nowhere near the level of the New 52, where every title seems to have its purpose and the universe appears to be planned out as far back as a thousand years or more.

I've seen a couple problems with the timeline mentioned, and there have obviously been a couple hiccups, but I don't think it's anything that can't be fixed or explained away. For instance, the Tim Drake always being Red Robin. It's easy enough to just consider the word Robin a position rather than an actual name in the two instances he was referred to as having been such. We never saw him in action as Robin, so there's no reason to consider it an error (which it wouldn't be anyway, it's just a change of plans).

Second, the Batgirl/Black Canary meeting in Birds of Prey 0. It says it happened one year ago, but that doesn't necessarily have to mean 12 months ago exactly. It could just be any time in the year prior to the New 52 starting. It could be the day before the first issue of Batgirl. I flipped through Batgirl 1 and 2 and there's no reference to those issues being Barabar's first case back in action. As for her relationship with Black Canary, there's nothing in their meeting during Birds of Prey 1 that wouldn't fit the scenario of their having met weeks earlier. Not a problem.

Third, the Damian/Batman costume issue. I'll combine these because they fit together well. The best explanation I have that doesn't contradict anything in the books is that Bruce wore the Batman costume when he fought Ra's and then didn't have it when he came back to Gotham and initially started fighting crime there. Maybe Ra's even gave it to him. This makes sense, if he wore it fighting Ra's prior to Damian's conception and later on it was still at Talia's house for baby Damian to find and wear it. Since he left it behind he obviously didn't have it in Batman 0. It's possible when he came to the conclusion he needed a costume he decided to go back to the old one for whatever reason. As far as Damian's age, Detective Comics 0 takes place 10 years ago with Bruce in Tibet, where he mentions he'd already been to Syria and Afghanistan in his world travels. It's pretty easy to assume he met Ra's while in the Middle East during that trip, and so Damian could easily be the 10 years old he's supposed to be. It actually fits perfectly to my mind, and doesn't even require any artificial growth in Damian.

Lastly, the Deathstroke problem. This one I'll admit is a mistake, given the story we're told in Deathstroke 0. However, with simple alteration - namely, Deathstroke starting a family prior to Team 7 rather than after - it's still a salvageable issue. Also helpful in this cause is the fact that it's narrated by his wife, who I think could qualify as an unreliable narrator. She hates Deathstroke now and probably wasn't privy to his whole life story anyway, so any errors could just be written off as coming from a bad source. Not an ideal fix, but an available one.

So that's what's been on my mind lately. I'd love to be able to talk about the comics I love with people who enjoy them as well, instead of people who just want to crap all over them.

[atrocitus]

I've been reading comics for years. I don't see a problem with new 52. In fact, it fuelled up the burning desire to know more about my favourite characters.
One thing to take back is that majority of the haters online are upset with DC and no matter what DC do its not going to be good. Either that or they're Marvel fanboys that partakes in very juvenile competition.
The fact is the vocal minority are just minority. There is a reason DC has increased sales ever since last year september.

[SAMURAI36]

Excellent post/thread, Joe.

A big reason (though not the biggest) I haven't been posting over the last couple weeks is because I'm tired of all the rampant negativity in regards to DC. For some people every single thing they do is not only wrong, but apparently offensive. Everything is all doom and gloom and, if you believe them, the company will be out of business in 6 months. So, instead of dealing with it anymore, I just decided to start this thread where DC fans can talk about all they like about the company and its books.

I agree totally. I continue to say, that I don't get people who gripe about something so much, when they could be spending all that time and energy talking about (and actually enjoying) the stuff that they do like.

One thing I've been really impressed by all along, but especially now that I'm in the middle of the 0 issues, is the continuity and really tight timeline of the entire universe. Having read Marvel a lot during Harras's time in charge there I knew this would be a highlight, since he and his team do a good job keeps the books intertwined, though back then it was nowhere near the level of the New 52, where every title seems to have its purpose and the universe appears to be planned out as far back as a thousand years or more.

Agreed. It was one of the things that I enjoyed about the X-Men during his time there. It made me enjoy, and not mind buying and reading a dozen different X-Books at the time, because it all felt like organic reading. This is how the New 52 feels to me as well.

I've seen a couple problems with the timeline mentioned, and there have obviously been a couple hiccups, but I don't think it's anything that can't be fixed or explained away. For instance, the Tim Drake always being Red Robin. It's easy enough to just consider the word Robin a position rather than an actual name in the two instances he was referred to as having been such. We never saw him in action as Robin, so there's no reason to consider it an error (which it wouldn't be anyway, it's just a change of plans).

I agree. I don't get why people flip out about this. The DCU as a whole, is all about family legacies. There are a dozen or more different hero names, where various characters have filled the shoes. "Robin" is no different.

Second, the Batgirl/Black Canary meeting in Birds of Prey 0. It says it happened one year ago, but that doesn't necessarily have to mean 12 months ago exactly. It could just be any time in the year prior to the New 52 starting. It could be the day before the first issue of Batgirl. I flipped through Batgirl 1 and 2 and there's no reference to those issues being Barabar's first case back in action. As for her relationship with Black Canary, there's nothing in their meeting during Birds of Prey 1 that wouldn't fit the scenario of their having met weeks earlier. Not a problem.

Nice. Quite honestly, I didn't even know that people were complaining about this. Nor did I know that there was anything to even comlain about.

Third, the Damian/Batman costume issue. I'll combine these because they fit together well. The best explanation I have that doesn't contradict anything in the books is that Bruce wore the Batman costume when he fought Ra's and then didn't have it when he came back to Gotham and initially started fighting crime there. Maybe Ra's even gave it to him. This makes sense, if he wore it fighting Ra's prior to Damian's conception and later on it was still at Talia's house for baby Damian to find and wear it. Since he left it behind he obviously didn't have it in Batman 0. It's possible when he came to the conclusion he needed a costume he decided to go back to the old one for whatever reason. As far as Damian's age, Detective Comics 0 takes place 10 years ago with Bruce in Tibet, where he mentions he'd already been to Syria and Afghanistan in his world travels. It's pretty easy to assume he met Ra's while in the Middle East during that trip, and so Damian could easily be the 10 years old he's supposed to be. It actually fits perfectly to my mind, and doesn't even require any artificial growth in Damian.

Excellent work, detective!! That bold statement above is the key that fits all of this together.

Lastly, the Deathstroke problem. This one I'll admit is a mistake, given the story we're told in Deathstroke 0. However, with simple alteration - namely, Deathstroke starting a family prior to Team 7 rather than after - it's still a salvageable issue. Also helpful in this cause is the fact that it's narrated by his wife, who I think could qualify as an unreliable narrator. She hates Deathstroke now and probably wasn't privy to his whole life story anyway, so any errors could just be written off as coming from a bad source. Not an ideal fix, but an available one.

I can go with this. Besides, it's not like she would be totally aware of all of Slade's whereabouts and activities. Not even the wives of conventional military soldiers know what the hell is going on overseas.... Do we really think that the wives of Special Ops guys have a freakin' clue??

So that's what's been on my mind lately. I'd love to be able to talk about the comics I love with people who enjoy them as well, instead of people who just want to crap all over them.

Amen to that, brother. Let's get this party started!!

[Joe Kalicki]

I still have the last two weeks of 0 issues to read. I'm roughly a month behind. I just read Batwoman 0 today and if I read it right, it sounds like she was training for about 4 years before becoming Batwoman, which is interesting, and something I never realized before, if it was ever mentioned. I am disappointed they didn't cover Bette at all, but they did have a lot to cram in. Hopefully future issues will get into her history as well, and close off possibly the last bit of pre-Flashpoint continuity that hasn't gotten the New 52 treatment yet.

[Pop-Tart Samson]

I supported DC Comics with my dying breath from 1985 - 2004. Glad to see there's still someone who thinks they are making good comics. I'm not one of them, but I don't begrudge anyone their favorite stuff. So, at least trying for some positive light on the subject is perfectly respectful.

[SAMURAI36]

I still have the last two weeks of 0 issues to read. I'm roughly a month behind. I just read Batwoman 0 today and if I read it right, it sounds like she was training for about 4 years before becoming Batwoman, which is interesting, and something I never realized before, if it was ever mentioned. I am disappointed they didn't cover Bette at all, but they did have a lot to cram in. Hopefully future issues will get into her history as well, and close off possibly the last bit of pre-Flashpoint continuity that hasn't gotten the New 52 treatment yet.

I'm wondering what the deal with Bette is as well. But I think we'll still have a while before we see her back in uniform, so I doubt we'll get any new revelations till then. We still have the arc with WW to get thru.

I'm still loving Batwoman, BTW. It's one of my fave bat-books, and DC books overall. I just wish they'd do more to incorporate her into the Bat universe more. There's already 2 big events that she's had to miss out on.

[Joe B. Pangrazio]

The back up in Detective 13 was very good. It was the kind of Bats story that I like (where it is set in Gotham and Batman appears, but is built up as a legend and it isn't solely about Bats flying around, beating stuff up).

[HellBlazerRaiser]

Thanks for starting this thread! It was needed.

I'm a lifelong DC fan.

When I was a kid, my buddy from the across the street was always Batman (with the feetsie pjs) and I was Superman (with my feetsie pjs and a red cape, a large red beach towel). My buddy's oder brother was an amalgam of Cyclops and Captain America (he had no feetsie pjs).

We ALWAYS fought with him over which characters were better. He was two years older than me (three older than my buddy) and we always lost the fights; we were small, but scrappy, so we didn't go down easily.

Anyway, I'm loving the DCnU. Some books stink, a lot are entertaining, a good number are brilliant and a few are straight up masterful in all ways – art, writing, story, character, editing, coloring – ALL WAYS.

I miss some of MY DCU (see below) characters, but I understand what DCE did and is doing with the "New 52." They needed something to ignite their books creatively (more than a few DCU books were treading water or just stuck in a rut) and strike a match under their sales. It's not like they didn't build a backdoor if the "New 52" failed (as so many prognosticators predicted), via FLASHPOINT.

I do miss a number of DCU characters – Donna Troy and Wally West being the #1 and #2 (I miss my beloved Damage and Jessie Quick quite a bit also). But I accept that they're not around. The Pre-CRISIS Kara Zor-El is my all-time favorite comic book character (for a deeply personal reason) and I've been missing her for 25 years. I moved on from Kara and I'll move on from the others. Everything comes to an end, even comic book characters and some of the former iterations.

Donna, Wally, Dick Grayson and the other New Teen Titans and the Levitz LSH [pretty much the whole LSH, actually]) are/were my identifiers. If they never appear in the DCnU, I'll be ok with that. I have their old stories to read and reread.

I'm buying all of the DCnU series (and most of the mini-series [I've only skipped Penguin, a character I never really cared for]) and while some, like I wrote above do stink, the VAST majority do not.

I don't understand the aggression so many show towards DCE because of the DCnU. It's not just us "regular" readers. A lot of the "pundits" have a grudge (a mad-on) against DCE. It's as if it's not trendy for "reviewers" to give DC books high grades. They go into their reading for the review with a chip on their shoulders.

I rambled. I'll have more cogent thoughts about which books I am loving later in the week.

[HellBlazerRaiser]

I still have the last two weeks of 0 issues to read. I'm roughly a month behind. I just read Batwoman 0 today and if I read it right, it sounds like she was training for about 4 years before becoming Batwoman, which is interesting, and something I never realized before, if it was ever mentioned. I am disappointed they didn't cover Bette at all, but they did have a lot to cram in. Hopefully future issues will get into her history as well, and close off possibly the last bit of pre-Flashpoint continuity that hasn't gotten the New 52 treatment yet.

I put together a Batwoman timeline a couple of years ago.
The HellBlazerRaiser Blog: Batwoman Timeline

I'll have to revise it one day, but I'm not as concerned with continuity as much now as I seemed to be then.

BATWOMAN #0 (Version 2.0) was one of the masterful books I mentioned above.

The week that issue came out, FABLES* #121 was also released. It was a powerful one two punch for me. I sat at my desk crying after reading both issues. I've lost a sister (see my comments about the Pre-CRISIS Kara Zor-El) and my pop, so both issues (and Kate Kane's loss – sibling and parent) affected me deeply. I don't want to spoil FABLES' CUBS IN TOYLAND arc for anyone who hasn't read it. But it was extremely dark with a stunning, bright from dark, overwhelmingly powerful end.

That identification with Kate losing Beth and her mom most likely colored my overall perception of the book. I think BATWOMAN #0 (Version 2.0) is a masterpiece.







*FABES is my all-time favorite comic book series.

[Joe Kalicki]

I got a little sad reading Batwoman 0 when Kate talks about how great, patient and loving her dad was after her mom and sister were killed. I always strive to be that type of person (and usually fail).