Page 8 of 13 FirstFirst ... 678910 ... LastLast
Results 71 to 80 of 123
Like Tree193Likes

Thread: New Twist In The Fight For Superman: $600,000 For Shuster's Half?

  1. #71
    Bleeding Cool
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Chesapeake, VA
    Posts
    7,736

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by db8coach View Post
    I didn't find that or I would have included it. Bottom line, If you take an invention to a company and they buy it, no matter what the value is 75 years later, you no longer have a claim to monies from that invention.
    The law has this thing called "termination rights". So...you know...they actually do still have a claim in this case.

    Wait...should I have put "the facts:" in front of that?
    darkspark likes this.

  2. #72
    Bleeding Cool toodoor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Winchester, UK
    Posts
    11,473

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin T Brown View Post
    Kevin Huxford is correct when he mentiond this:
    it may seem that he's right, but surely he can't be?????
    khuxford and darkspark like this.

  3. #73
    Zen Master of Cool WinterCeltic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Zeta Reticuli
    Posts
    956

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by atrocitus View Post
    Why? Who gives a shit about Shusters and Siegel. Its not like they're related to me in anyway.
    Wow. Just, wow. Case closed.

    Quote Originally Posted by atrocitus View Post
    Before you go all holier than thou, just lemme know when was the last time you did something for the poor or did something nice to the homeless.
    Oh, I don't know... Maybe the Thanksgiving dinner for the homeless that my mother organizes every year that I help with? Or the events I participate in for Make-A-Wish Foundation with my R2-D2 and friend's Batmobile? Or maybe the $100 check I write to Catholic Social Services EVERY WEEK (which goes towards all kinds of needy families)? The question is, what do YOU do? I assume from your posts, absolutely nothing... except maybe let a friend borrow your copy of the latest Green Lantern comic.

    Quote Originally Posted by atrocitus View Post
    Just because you hate big corporations doesn't mean everyone should.
    I don't hate corporations at all. I work for one. I even worked for a Time Warner company, and have no I'll feelings in that regard. What I do hate is when corporations explicitly take advantage of "the little people", especially on an individual level, and when they exploit and mistreat the talent and creators who actually built many of their valuable assets. Anyone with an iota of human empathy should despise that.

    As far as this situation, I'm actually NOT on the blood-sucking lawyer's side and it does look like DC was willing to provide a fair settlement to all. So good on them. Your attitude, however, is appalling. "Who gives a crap about the people who actually created Superman or their families... as long as I get my funny books!" And you post stuff like this publicly, without any sense of shame. Yikes.

    Quote Originally Posted by atrocitus View Post
    You're being a little too hypocritical. I'm offended that I have to share the same planet with hypocrites like you.
    How exactly am I being hypocritical? Please explain. Or were you just pulling something out of thin air because you're a myopic DC pole-squatter who's unashamedly selfish and I called you out on it?

  4. #74
    Bleeding Cool
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Chesapeake, VA
    Posts
    7,736

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by atrocitus View Post
    Why? Because I rather have WB earn more money and put Superman front and center of DC?
    Who gives a shit about Shusters and Siegel. Its not like they're related to me in anyway. Before you go all holier than thou, just lemme know when was the last time you did something for the poor or did something nice to the homeless. What makes Siegels and Shusters more important than these people. Just because you hate big corporations doesn't mean everyone should. Everyone is only looking out for their own interest. If Siegels wasn't looking out for their own interest, they wouldn't take up this case.
    You're being a little too hypocritical. I'm offended that I have to share the same planet with hypocrites like you.
    There's nothing about this post that isn't hilariously fucking idiotic.

    Lemme guess: you haven't helped the homeless, so you're assuming the rest of us haven't?

  5. #75
    VP in Charge of Cool DJ_Convoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Seattle (as immortalized by Public Image Limited)
    Posts
    1,261

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MrNitekatt View Post
    DC has been MORE than fair prior to Toberoff getting involved - do some reading - DC was (and apparently is) ready to offer the same multi-multi million deal they put on the table to Jerry's Estate right before Toberoff swooped in,sweet talked (conned) The Siegels right before they were to sign a deal with DC/Warners to settle things once and for all. DC has never balked at paying all back royalties and residues dating back from the termination date to the date a settlement is reached.

    Paul Levitz (and Janette Kahn before him) had excellent relationships with Jerry,Joe (and The Estates) if anything, Joe's Estate will get the short end of the stick regardless of the outcome for the Siegels because of THEIR Deal with DC.

    ...But then Jerry created the Superman idea and then brought in his best friend and collaborator to flesh out the idea. Heck, Jerry had another artist do a couple of weeks of DAILY STRIP SAMPLES WITHOUT JOE!

    I like the implication that I haven't "done some reading." Dare I suggest that YOU "do some reading" to find out how National/Jack Leibowitz treated Siegel and Shuster before the Superman movie came out and Neal Adams publicly shamed them into doing what was right? I wouldn't be that presumptive.

    My point was entirely based on the fact that DC is not totally in the right in this matter. Nor are they totally wrong. To be honest, I don't know quite where I stand on it. But please don't assume that someone "hasn't done the reading" because they put up a simple line warning about the integrity of a scummy lawyer. 25 years of reading about the backstage politics of comics, from books like The Comic Book Heroes to mags like TCJ, Alter Ego and CBA to blogs like Danny Boy and even here, let alone my research into matters of copyright reversion for other matters might prove you wrong. But I wouldn't want to stand in judgment on you.

    For what it's worth, I do agree that Levitz, Kahn, et al did mend fences as much as possible. I know about the Great DC Convention and Kahn's efforts to have those two men treated well in 1976. I know about Levitz' outreaching to the families. I know what was posted on Danny Boy (just like you!) about the settlement that was to be reached. My main concern here is that Toberoff is not acting in anyone's interests other than his own, which was all my reply suggested. Better the devil you know, I suppose...

    Be more careful before you jump to a conclusion next time, please. Especially about whether someone has done reading.
    Last edited by DJ_Convoy; 07-19-2012 at 07:39 AM.
    darkspark likes this.

  6. #76
    VP in Charge of Cool
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,251

    Default

    "Second, why would Superman suddenly not be in the media as much? It's not like the heirs are adverse to money so I would think they wouldn't block whatever would make them cash out of spite."

    Like I said before, the advantage for Toberoff of signing both the Siegel and Shuster estates and locking up 100% of the rights upon termination, would be that he could block DC Comics from doing anything with the character (something which he would be barred from doing with only 50% of the rights.)

    Which means that whatever demands Toberoff might have, monetary or in terms of control of the property in some other way, would have to be met, or the whole Superman Franchise could risk being completely dismantled (at least until the original stories etc. belonging to Siegel/Shuster entered Public Domain, whereupon DC Comics could use its vast Superman library of stories again.)

    It is not unreasonable to suggest Toberoff winning might result in no more Superman Comics (or other products), as that is precisely the leverage Toberoff and the Siegel/Shuster estate intended to have at their disposal to increase the offer from DC Comics.

    Without Toberoff, the Siegels were only entitled to a sum representing 50% of the profits DC Comics makes from Superman, through licensing it to Warner Brothers and various toy manufacturers etc. and the profits from the books. And once you strip away production costs and overhead that's still a lot of money but probably not far from what they were being offered.

    Since there is some degree of vertical integration in Time Warner's business, however, the various components of Time Warner (other than DC Comics) who license Superman for use in movies, TV and product also make a lot of money. The Siegel and Shuster estates, however, do not get any of that profit, just the licensing fee (but it has to be a fair licensing fee, so that no-one gets cheated, that's the law).

    So Time Warner stands to lose a lot of money if they lose that property. Especially as Superman is intertwined in so many other DC Comics properties that would also be locked out. And it's part of that money Toberoff is aiming for.

    If we consider for instance that whatever the Siegel estate was offered would be between 50% and 100% of what their 50% share would be worth (fairly accounted), Toberoff's involvement means you have to double that just for them to instantly get the same amount of money. Assume that they wouldn't make this deal unless they expected to maybe double their profits. Add to that the cost of litigation and delays and the Toberoff deal has to come out to at least 5 times as much money for the Siegel Estate to "break even". And that's before he really starts squeezing.

    If the attempt at getting a summary judgement in the Shuster case fails and that half looks likely to go to Toberoff, it might heavily affect Time Warner stock prices as the time limit approaches, putting a lot of pressure on them to settle. And Toberoff looks to be aiming for a settlement, not a victory. The rights without the WFH parts owned by DC are worth a lot less than initially offered. However, if you look at the filing, DC Comics is also asking the judge to find any agreement between the Shusters and Toberoff void and provide that the Shuster estate can only negotiate with DC Comics until the rights have actually been terminated.

    Which means that if they are only partly succesful, they might still be able to swoop in and offer the Shuster estate a solid pay-off that they won't have to share with Toberoff (because they don't have any legally valid agreement to transfer rights to him). And that sum, whatever it is, will probably serve as a guideline for how much the Siegels will get paid as well.

    DC Comics have seemed on the ropes a bit with the Siegel Estate, but if they manage to prevail on just a few of the several points outlined here, they can essentially knock the legs out from under Toberoff. Whether that is likely or not remains to be seen.

  7. #77
    Very Cool
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    27

  8. #78
    VP in Charge of Cool
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    1,689

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by toodoor View Post
    Not got an actual argument in response huh?
    Why should I waste an argument on a selfish troglodyte? The only thing that he's worthy of is contempt. Its no wonder nobody is creating any characters of any worth for the big two these days since they know the company will screw them over just like every other creator in the past. DC are slightly less cuntish than Marvel but they'll still do anything to protect their precious copyright instead of giving creators and their families a FAIR share.

  9. #79
    Bleeding Cool toodoor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Winchester, UK
    Posts
    11,473

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Locusmortis View Post
    Why should I waste an argument on a selfish troglodyte? The only thing that he's worthy of is contempt. Its no wonder nobody is creating any characters of any worth for the big two these days since they know the company will screw them over just like every other creator in the past. DC are slightly less cuntish than Marvel but they'll still do anything to protect their precious copyright instead of giving creators and their families a FAIR share.
    How about because he laid out a well reasoned case that he felt that DC had acted fairly. You don't have to agree with it but it merited a polite response.If you'd been replying to atrocitus then your argument would be fairly applied.

  10. #80
    Time Out Joe Kalicki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Joliet, IL
    Posts
    18,139

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by toodoor View Post
    How about because he laid out a well reasoned case that he felt that DC had acted fairly. You don't have to agree with it but it merited a polite response.If you'd been replying to atrocitus then your argument would be fairly applied.
    It is interesting that apparently only what he considers fair is good enough, despite the creators considering their compensation fair initially, and at least one Schuster being quite happy with her payments. It's weird to me that someone would put their own views of fairness ahead of those of the creators' and their families'.

Page 8 of 13 FirstFirst ... 678910 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •