Geek Girl On The Street Reports: Gail Simone's Tea Is Only Con-Hot*

[Mike H.]

You said it much more politely than I would have. I think we'll let yours stand and just not mention my first reaction to that arrogant, self-righteous screed.

Thanks. I guess I somehow managed to overcome my "irresistible impulses" to do wrong.

[Mike H.]

I can't use my ironman omnibus as a source for everything.

I use my Iron Man omnibus as a paperweight and a doorstop.

In anycase, this is my last post till after thanksgiving.
Hope everyone has a nice Holliday, if they celebrate, or just a decent day if they don't. Please try to follow the rules while I'm gone, and don't break the internet

Happy Turkey Day to you as well! (If you celebrate it, that is. And aren't a vegan. "Happy Cranberry Sauce Day"...?)

[hellblazer72]

We are adults here so you CAN swear, just don't go too crazy with it. As for a conspiracy against kids? I'm not seeing it. Things changed. And your facts and numbers... Didn't add up. I can see what you are saying, but from my perspective in this last post it looks like you just said two plus two equals a zebra, and it gets a bit confusing. We aren't here to fuck kids over, and it makes me rather sad to see you perceive things that way. That being said, I cannot change your feelings, and its not meant as a personal slight if I don't follow your evidence. As far as backing up shit- my books are currently in storage due to sadfaced RL stuffs, and I can't use my ironman omnibus as a source for everything.

In anycase, this is my last post till after thanksgiving.
Hope everyone has a nice Holliday, if they celebrate, or just a decent day if they don't. Please try to follow the rules while I'm gone, and don't break the internet

~Roo

Happy holidays to you.

[BatrocZLeaper]

When I was a child, my parents made sure to take an interest in my entertainment choices. There were many things that were a lot less "kid friendly" in nature that they let me read and watch but wouldn't let my brother near because they knew it would disturb him.

I'm younger than my brother by over two years.

The point is, I always appreciated that my parents didn't take a "one size should fit all" approach to raising us. The world would be a poorer, sadder place if we didn't have all the choices that are available to us when it comes to entertainment. Anyone who wants to control or restrict those choices for everyone has issues of their own they need to deal with, and the "Think of the Children!" defense is merely a convenient excuse/smokescreen.

By your thinking, everything anyone on this thread (or anywhere else) has ever said about how WOMEN ARE PORTRAYED IN COMICS are just trying to limit your entertainment choices. Women have been objectified in comics since the beginning of time, but not in ALL comics. So people like our OP and Gail Simone or whoever can just read the comics WITHOUT the women in refrigerators, right? I'm sure there are plenty of them out there, so why are they trying to take away MY contorted, objectified superheroines? By your logic, that's what you're saying. Anyone can change comics into anything they want it to be as long as you agree with it.

Happy Thanksgiving, everyone.

[BatrocZLeaper]

My thanksgiving tradition. William S. Burroughs - A Thanksgiving Prayer - YouTube

[Mike H.]

By your thinking, everything anyone on this thread (or anywhere else) has ever said about how WOMEN ARE PORTRAYED IN COMICS are just trying to limit your entertainment choices. Women have been objectified in comics since the beginning of time, but not in ALL comics. So people like our OP and Gail Simone or whoever can just read the comics WITHOUT the women in refrigerators, right? I'm sure there are plenty of them out there, so why are they trying to take away MY contorted, objectified superheroines? By your logic, that's what you're saying. Anyone can change comics into anything they want it to be as long as you agree with it.

You sad, sad little simpleton. Perhaps I overestimated your intellect, but I had you pegged for being smarter than that. It's a true pity if you aren't.

For the record: you seem to be advocating censorship. Wait, did I say "advocating"? Hell, you're begging for and demanding it, because as a parent you supposedly don't know how to explain certain things to your children (apparently you'd be more than happy if others would do it for you) and when it comes to their entertainment you don't even want to have to think about it. (If I'm wrong about any of that, please clarify your position.)

The people you've cited who object to how some women are treated in comics seem to be calling for awareness and enlightenment. (And if I'm wrong in that regard I'm sure they will clarify.) There is a vast chasm between those two points of view.

Happy Thanksgiving, everyone.

Happy Thanksgiving to you, too.

[BatrocZLeaper]

You sad, sad little simpleton. Perhaps I overestimated your intellect, but I had you pegged for being smarter than that. It's a true pity if you aren't.



Happy Thanksgiving to you, too.

Whatever you want to believe, chief.

[AdorkableGrrl]

I'm actually surprised I haven't heard more about small presses doing more all-age things, as that does seeem like a bit of a market gap that could be reached for. People who read comics have kids and are starting to want things they can read to THEIR kids.

Can I address this? I've had an all ages series sitting in limbo at Oni Press for a year waiting on publication. You know why they haven't published this and don't publish more all ages stuff?

(Wait for it.)

Because all ages/kids comics and graphic novels don't sell well.*

There in the point that "comics are just for kids" is destroyed. Comics are for who wants to buy them and if parents don't buy or ask for comics for their kids, the industry will stop making them. Whereas adult nerds will happily shell out $30-$40 each week buying comics, and the industry responds by making more of them.

Same for video games and nerdy toys.

I know as a kid that I had to sneak my comics because my literacy professor parents thought that they weren't very good reading material. They'd happily buy me a ton of books each week, but I had to argue the point that comics were like soda or sugared cereal and then I *only* got comics and mags like MAD when we went on vacation... Anyhow... I was linking this post in a blog over on GeekNation and was curious about what happened on the comment thread after I left... Hope everyone had a great Turkey Day (if you're in the US).

*I literally had Joe Nozemack tell me this. My series had been approved by Jill Beaton and James Lucas Jones, but Joe pulled the plug on it b/c they're cutting drastically back on all ages comics at Oni b/c they do-not-sell.

By your thinking, everything anyone on this thread (or anywhere else) has ever said about how WOMEN ARE PORTRAYED IN COMICS are just trying to limit your entertainment choices. Women have been objectified in comics since the beginning of time, but not in ALL comics. So people like our OP and Gail Simone or whoever can just read the comics WITHOUT the women in refrigerators, right? I'm sure there are plenty of them out there, so why are they trying to take away MY contorted, objectified superheroines? By your logic, that's what you're saying. Anyone can change comics into anything they want it to be as long as you agree with it.

Replace the word "woman" in your post with "children" and see how offensive it is...

We're not trying to take away anyone's objectified women-Hulk smash-beatemup-say fuck eighteen times per page comics. We're saying that IN ADDITION to those comics - which have an audience, for sure - that we'd like to see comics created which represent women in positive, semi-realistic manners and feature storylines we're interested in reading. We don't want to censor comics, we want to make more comics so everyone has something they enjoy.

Granted, I cannot help but look a little unfavorably at any gentleman who thinks that objectifying a woman in the manner which Gail discusses in WiR is an a-okay statement about our society... But, on that note, objectification doesn't just happen to women in comics (though I'd say it happens most often to women) -- here is an excellent article by Martha Thomases about this very topic:

http://www.comicmix.com/columns/2012...n-four-colors/

By-the-by, the OP is me and my friggin' name is in my signature block. If you can use Gail Simone's name, you can use mine - quit trying to devalue my argument by pretending that I'm just some random fangirl who Rich Johnston let sound off on BC -- I'm fairly well established as a writer on this topic and have had a column here for 2+ years. /rant

[hellblazer72]

Can I address this? I've had an all ages series sitting in limbo at Oni Press for a year waiting on publication. You know why they haven't published this and don't publish more all ages stuff?

(Wait for it.)

Because all ages/kids comics and graphic novels don't sell well.*

There in the point that "comics are just for kids" is destroyed. Comics are for who wants to buy them and if parents don't buy or ask for comics for their kids, the industry will stop making them. Whereas adult nerds will happily shell out $30-$40 each week buying comics, and the industry responds by making more of them.

Same for video games and nerdy toys.

I know as a kid that I had to sneak my comics because my literacy professor parents thought that they weren't very good reading material. They'd happily buy me a ton of books each week, but I had to argue the point that comics were like soda or sugared cereal and then I *only* got comics and mags like MAD when we went on vacation... Anyhow... I was linking this post in a blog over on GeekNation and was curious about what happened on the comment thread after I left... Hope everyone had a great Turkey Day (if you're in the US).

*I literally had Joe Nozemack tell me this. My series had been approved by Jill Beaton and James Lucas Jones, but Joe pulled the plug on it b/c they're cutting drastically back on all ages comics at Oni b/c they do-not-sell.



Replace the word "woman" in your post with "children" and see how offensive it is...

We're not trying to take away anyone's objectified women-Hulk smash-beatemup-say fuck eighteen times per page comics. We're saying that IN ADDITION to those comics - which have an audience, for sure - that we'd like to see comics created which represent women in positive, semi-realistic manners and feature storylines we're interested in reading. We don't want to censor comics, we want to make more comics so everyone has something they enjoy.

Granted, I cannot help but look a little unfavorably at any gentleman who thinks that objectifying a woman in the manner which Gail discusses in WiR is an a-okay statement about our society... But, on that note, objectification doesn't just happen to women in comics (though I'd say it happens most often to women) -- here is an excellent article by Martha Thomases about this very topic:

Martha Thomases: Feminism In Four Colors - ComicMix

By-the-by, the OP is me and my friggin' name is in my signature block. If you can use Gail Simone's name, you can use mine - quit trying to devalue my argument by pretending that I'm just some random fangirl who Rich Johnston let sound off on BC -- I'm fairly well established as a writer on this topic and have had a column here for 2+ years. /rant

Have you tried shopping the boom around at other companies?

If you haven't done so, check out shade the changing an and girl from vertigo. Both are great reads and both by Milligan.

[StarCruncher]

Beyond alliteration, what is the point of a grown woman using "girl" (or growling variant)?
While it can partly seem youthful, it also seems diminutive in terms of experience and knowledge.
If someone called me a "boy" at work, it would certainly be with a negative connotation (and reception, lol).