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Thread: Cyclops And Emma Frost Are Definitely Splitsville, And Bendis Was For Killing Professor X To Make His Comics "More Interesting"...

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingslayer View Post
    Yes there was a single event that could motivate him to change his views: House Of M. The mutant species was wiped out (save for 198) and there were no new mutant births. The species was on the verge of extinction and that would make anyone change their philosophy from "Let's work with humans for a better tomorow that we can all live happily everafter in." to "All bets are off. If you threaten what's left of my people, we will use any means necessary to stop you and insure our survival.".
    A crime perpetrated by another mutant. I fail to see how that spins out to "All humans are bad! I'm a terrorist now!"
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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by AMDin View Post
    A crime perpetrated by another mutant. I fail to see how that spins out to "All humans are bad! I'm a terrorist now!"
    He explained it well. The focus shifted from integration to protecting the small community and helping it grow. In the ensuing seven years of stories, Cyclops has slowly become more of an isolationist, shifting away from Xavier's beliefs.

    I don't understand anyone who thinks this change was quick. It's happened over the course of a decade of storytelling. From my point of view, as someone who has bought X-Men comics consistently since the 90s, it's been a obvious shift in the character that's happened pretty naturally.

    If you don't like it, fine, but if you think it's "sudden" then you haven't been paying attention.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by downlikecharlie View Post
    He explained it well. The focus shifted from integration to protecting the small community and helping it grow. In the ensuing seven years of stories, Cyclops has slowly become more of an isolationist, shifting away from Xavier's beliefs.

    I don't understand anyone who thinks this change was quick. It's happened over the course of a decade of storytelling. From my point of view, as someone who has bought X-Men comics consistently since the 90s, it's been a obvious shift in the character that's happened pretty naturally.

    If you don't like it, fine, but if you think it's "sudden" then you haven't been paying attention.
    But Scott hasn't become an isolationist. He tried to be fully integrated in Westchester, but Maria Hill and Tony Stark put them in a concentration camp for "their own protection"; then he tried to live in San Francisco, and Norman Osborn went there to try to control the X-men. When that didn't work, he still tried to work with the SF government, but they ended up selling the X-men out- but in all that, he STILL had the team be reasonably integrated with the city, and the New Mutants were living in SF.

    Should be said that the excuses, ahem, reasons for Schism were that Papa Logan didn't wanted kids fighting and isolated from the world, but the kids in Utopia fought a lot less and were a lot more integrated to the rest of the MU than the ones in the JGS.

    Of course, Marvel and Aaron are more than happy to ignore the fact to promote Wolverine as the new Xavier, and reviewers never point it out because it's a crime to criticize the Fluff X-men apparently, since it's a "fun" book.
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  4. #54
    King of Cool Peter J Poole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingslayer View Post
    Yes there was a single event that could motivate him to change his views: House Of M. The mutant species was wiped out (save for 198) and there were no new mutant births. The species was on the verge of extinction and that would make anyone change their philosophy from "Let's work with humans for a better tomorow that we can all live happily everafter in." to "All bets are off. If you threaten what's left of my people, we will use any means necessary to stop you and insure our survival.".
    I still don't get this thing that you grow up for 13,14,15 years in one culture or society, then your powers kick in and 'bang' mutants and the mutant race become 'your people'. Even as an analogy to developing a sexual preference it seems a bit heavy handed.

    Then again, if we consider that Scott and the others were indoctrinated at Camp X to think that way...

    Quote Originally Posted by tralfaz View Post
    Just another piece of Morrison's work undone. Killing Prof X was just uninspired.
    a) So, not all bad news then...
    b) Yep. Carey's Legacy starring the Prof seemed pretty good to me. I'd put down money for a limited or ongoing Prof book. but telepathy is not a sexy visual power...

    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary Cyke View Post
    Of course, Marvel and Aaron are more than happy to ignore the fact to promote Wolverine as the new Xavier, and reviewers never point it out because it's a crime to criticize the Fluff X-men apparently, since it's a "fun" book.
    Meh... the whole point of many X-books by many teams is to find something for everyone. Though I am drowning in the candy floss factor of WATXM.

    By the way, Uncanny X-Force are actually tackling some of the downsides of Wolverine in the current arc, though I don't expect any of it to stick...

    Cheers

  5. #55
    King of Cool Peter J Poole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by downlikecharlie View Post
    I don't understand anyone who thinks this change was quick. It's happened over the course of a decade of storytelling. From my point of view, as someone who has bought X-Men comics consistently since the 90s, it's been a obvious shift in the character that's happened pretty naturally.
    Mmmm... kind of...

    There's a kludge factor where Morrison introduced a character purely so Cyclops could mercy kill him just to prove how hard-ass he was. Though admittedly after Scott was 'possessed' by Apocalypse for a while.

    I'm still holding out for the arc where Erik the Red appears and is revealed as the real Scott Summers, back to deal with the Skrull who's been impersonating him for years...

    Cheers

  6. #56
    Wrote the Book on Cool Revolutionary Cyke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter J Poole View Post

    By the way, Uncanny X-Force are actually tackling some of the downsides of Wolverine in the current arc, though I don't expect any of it to stick...

    Cheers
    Oh, I agree. Logan is too overexposed to have fully consistent characterization.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary Cyke View Post
    But Scott hasn't become an isolationist. He tried to be fully integrated in Westchester, but Maria Hill and Tony Stark put them in a concentration camp for "their own protection"; then he tried to live in San Francisco, and Norman Osborn went there to try to control the X-men. When that didn't work, he still tried to work with the SF government, but they ended up selling the X-men out- but in all that, he STILL had the team be reasonably integrated with the city, and the New Mutants were living in SF.

    Should be said that the excuses, ahem, reasons for Schism were that Papa Logan didn't wanted kids fighting and isolated from the world, but the kids in Utopia fought a lot less and were a lot more integrated to the rest of the MU than the ones in the JGS.

    Of course, Marvel and Aaron are more than happy to ignore the fact to promote Wolverine as the new Xavier, and reviewers never point it out because it's a crime to criticize the Fluff X-men apparently, since it's a "fun" book.
    And that's the thing that gets me, throughout everything, Scott continued to try and integrate into society, and HoM made it more pressing because 1) there were fewer mutants and 2) the genocide was caused by one of their own. To all of a sudden (and yes it was sudden - I've been reading the X-books since the the mid-80's and the entire Schism to AvX period is out of left field) decide that he'd prefer to kill Xavier and become a terrorist, that's completely out of synch. It's very heavy-handed and feels more like a means to an end. It feels like Bendis' idea was "Scott"'s been the boyscout for way too long. Lets blow people's mind and make him the bad guy!" There's no basis for the character direction.

    As far as Logan goes ... I'm less angry about it (and also I love WatXM). Logan's always been a bit dichotomous so the idea that he wants to protect and teach the kids while still killing is not a surprise. It's pretty much how he was with Kitty, with Rachel, with Rogue.

  8. #58
    King of Cool Peter J Poole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AMDin View Post
    Logan's always been a bit dichotomous so the idea that he wants to protect and teach the kids while still killing is not a surprise. It's pretty much how he was with Kitty, with Rachel, with Rogue.
    When he gets a TV show called "Logan'll Fix It", then we can really worry...

    Cheers
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  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter J Poole View Post
    When he gets a TV show called "Logan'll Fix It", then we can really worry...

    Cheers
    well, he's got the cigars

  10. #60
    King of Cool Peter J Poole's Avatar
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    Actually, I'd do an arc where we pick up on how Wolvie set Cap up to pick a fight with Scott, the fight he had with Cap that got him kicked out into the snow, and that Cap wants him off the Avengers but can't do that because he's trying to run a new mutant friendly team...

    Then Beast finds out exactly what he's been up to with X-Force and tells everyone at the school...

    This leads to Logan swearing he will not kill again and having his claws removed...

    Cheers

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