2012: Permaban Forgiveness?

[Joe Kalicki]

I'm not fan of permabans, I think they're pretty excessive. I'm not calling to get rid of them forever here, though, just a one time welcome back to the people who've suffered that fate to this point.

I know we've had out fair share of trolls and very disagreeable people here, but I feel like preventing someone from posting for all time is a bit much. I think getting a permaban could make people rethink their posting style in a way that any number of short bans won't, and they should be given at least one more chance to show what they learned and become a useful member of this community. If they end up failing again, just give them the boot one more time.

To that end, I suggest 2012 be the year of permaban forgiveness, where the bans are cancelled and e-mails are sent to the banned parties informing them they can post again. The Sacals, the DJ Ones, whoever. Just one more shot. . .

[Mark Seifert]

Hum. I have to say my immediate reaction is no. But... I respect your opinion as a longtime participant, so I'm going to give it some thought.

Here's the issue, from my perspective: a guy like Michael was given sooo many chances, and I went to a lot of effort to try to give him some guidance in the early days, but he just never learned the lesson, you know?

[Joe Kalicki]

Hum. I have to say my immediate reaction is no. But... I respect your opinion as a longtime participant, so I'm going to give it some thought.

Here's the issue, from my perspective: a guy like Michael was given sooo many chances, and I went to a lot of effort to try to give him some guidance in the early days, but he just never learned the lesson, you know?

I understand, but I think the fact that he and others like him finally did lose their posting abilities permanently may have awakened them to something they just couldn't grasp without it. Maybe they just needed a real, tangible wake up call, you know? Plus some of them have been gone for years, and people do change. . .

And you could always just permaban them again if they screw up and I'll never say another word about it!

[Joe B. Pangrazio]

I understand, but I think the fact that he and others like him finally did lose their posting abilities permanently may have awakened them to something they just couldn't grasp without it. Maybe they just needed a real, tangible wake up call, you know? Plus some of them have been gone for years, and people do change. . .

And you could always just permaban them again if they screw up and I'll never say another word about it!

In the one case (Mr. Sacal) I'm friends with some of the same people and part of some of the same groups in other areas and...

He's still MOTA.

With others, I might agree. But I do agree with Mark that when people are given multiple chances, it shows that "you won't be able to post anymore!" isn't a real deterrent to them.

And someone who was so rocked by being banned from a place that they would change their behaviour...well...I don't know if that's a good person to invite back anyway, honestly... (again, unless it was a, "they went way over the line once and got permabanned", which I don't believe has ever happened that I'm aware of).

[nilskidoo]

Personally, I think keeping a hard standard is not a bad thing to go by. Forums- and especially comic book related forums- can be mindnumbingly insane more often than not, but keeping certain standards of conduct as required status quo is by no means asking too much. Most regular (or irregular, like me) posters like the chance to share comments and ideas, and even to play along with ocassional debates. But persons who consistently act the fool can find other cesspools to drown in.

As for MOTA- I missed where exactly he finally crossed the line, but I always thought his contributions here were for the most part fun to read, and helped to keep several fun talks going.

[Matt Spatola]

Gosh as intriguing as it might be to open up the gates and release the Kraken- Michael Sacal- I think the ensuing torment, anguish and anger pretty much dooms this to a bad idea.

[Mad_Man_Moon]

Gosh as intriguing as it might be to open up the gates and release the Kraken- Michael Sacal- I think the ensuing torment, anguish and anger pretty much dooms this to a bad idea.

I'm with The Venger, above.

I actually tried *really* hard with Michael, *really hard*, and for a while he was fine with his little bubble universe continuity sand pit to play in .... and I'm pretty sure that the big bosses did spell it out to him.

So, anyway, whilst a large part of me wants to be the kind of person that would give someone the second chance, a larger part of me says that we're better off without.
(sorry, Michael, if you're reading this .... but it .... it just didn't work out between us ... OK?! it's .... it's just too much)


I can see quite a few of our new troll teetering on the edge of mini-bans, so we can test just how effective a bit of banning can be soon.

[Fysh]

In the one case (Mr. Sacal) I'm friends with some of the same people and part of some of the same groups in other areas and...

He's still MOTA.

With others, I might agree. But I do agree with Mark that when people are given multiple chances, it shows that "you won't be able to post anymore!" isn't a real deterrent to them.

And someone who was so rocked by being banned from a place that they would change their behaviour...well...I don't know if that's a good person to invite back anyway, honestly... (again, unless it was a, "they went way over the line once and got permabanned", which I don't believe has ever happened that I'm aware of).

I was going to post and say the same thing. I'm friends on FB with someone Michael knows who works in comics publishing and Michael is regularly just as much of a massive bellend when "discussing" things with this person as he was on BC. And this is someone with whom he has previously expressed a desire to work professionally, AFAIK. The guy does not seem to have any interest in changing how he approaches conversations where he and another participant disagree.

On a more general view, I appreciate Joe's thinking on the topic but my experience as a poster and on certain boards as a moderator is that it's a bad idea.

I got my start on forums with a mixture of mostly very-lightly regulated boards with even more of an "anything goes" approach than BC. A while later I was encouraged to join another, much more heavily regulated site by some friends. I'm still a regular contributor there, because the comparatively tighter restrictions mean that discussions remain civil and focused on the topic rather than devolving into flamewars. Given how hard it is to earn a permaban on this site, and how unlikely most of those who've earned them are to actually change their behaviour, I don't think it is a good idea to let them back into the party. I can only see it ending one way - with yet another turd inevitably being found in the punchbowl and an unrepentant moron braying his laughter for all to hear.